Archief - Rusland - De koude oorlog herleeft
Het archief is een bevroren moment uit een vorige versie van dit forum, met andere regels en andere bazen. Deze posts weerspiegelen op geen enkele manier onze huidige ideeën, waarden of wereldbeelden en zijn op sommige plaatsen gecensureerd wegens ontoelaatbaar. Veel zijn in een andere tijdsgeest gemaakt, al dan niet ironisch - zoals in het ironische subforum Off-Topic - en zouden op dit moment niet meer gepost (mogen) worden. Toch bieden we dit archief nog graag aan als informatiedatabank en naslagwerk. Lees er hier meer over of start een gesprek met anderen.
DaFreak
Legacy Member
Crashtestdummy zei:yep, nu ist begonnen
ist nog de moeite om maandag te gaan werken?
Zo'n vaart zal het wel niet lopen. We hebben nog "geluk" dat de situatie daar zo fucked up is dat alle landen die normaal dichter bij Rusland aanleunen in deze situatie toch eerder met het westen zouden alliëren. Zelfs aartsrivalen zoals Iran, Israel, Saoedi Arabie alsook Turkije en Kurdistan zouden verenigd worden in hun haat voor Assad. Rusland heeft veel moeite gedaan om toenadering te zoeken tot die landen maar heeft de afgelopen jaren al die bruggen al weer verbrand.
Milanello
Legacy Member
Miljoenen mensen worden wereldwijd elke dag onderdrukt. Van Zuid-Amerika, Afrika to Azië. Maar de VS moet echt van de mensen in Libië, Irak en Syrië houden om enkel hun te willen bevrijden en daar democratie te brengen. Wat zouden deze landen hebben dat bijvoorbeeld Afrikaanse dictaturen niet hebben? Waarom hebben ze niets gedaan aan de wreedheden in Myanmar? Maar een zogenaamde chemische aanval in Syrië en ze zijn bereid om WO3 te riskeren. Een chemische aanval die altijd volgt na overwinningen van de Syrische nationale leger op de terroristen. Dat komt toch mooi uit voor de Amerikanen en kunnen ze op hun woorden terugkomen dat ze zich zullen terugtrekken uit Syrië om hun gesponsorde "rebellen" toch te steunen. Het lijkt erop alsof Assad, elke keer net voor hij Syrië helemaal bevrijd heeft in zijn kantoor denkt "nu we voor de overwinning staan, laten we wat chemische wapens gooien en de VS ons terug in de Middeleeuwen schieten"
Makes a lot of sense
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G955F met Tapatalk
Makes a lot of sense
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G955F met Tapatalk
Lakigigar
Legacy Member
Epyon
Legacy Member
Allé, het Franse Ministerie van Defensie kan ook tevreden zijn. Hun overschot aan SCALP kruisraketten is meteen opgelost, en ze hebben voor het eerst ook hun nieuwe schipgebaseerde MdCN kruisraketten in een echte gevechtssituatie kunnen inzetten. Ze vervoegen daarmee een zeer select clubje landen dat over kruisraketten van eigen makelij beschikt die vanaf schepen en onderzeeërs gelanceerd kunnen worden (zelfs de Britten hebben dat niet).
https://twitter.com/Defense137/status/985030891411070977
https://twitter.com/Defense137/status/985030891411070977
DaFreak
Legacy Member
We moeten nu ook niet gaan overdrijven, Het is niet alsof het westen ineens massaal voor boots on the ground gaat gaan. Dit was gewoon een vergeldingsactie. Niet alleen is er voor een invasie geen draagvlak, het is inderdaad gewoon een feit dat we daar niets te zoeken hebben. Het waren strategisch gekozen doelwitten die allen te maken hadden met de chemische aanval. Met deze strike win je geen oorlog noch verzwak je daarmee Assad's positie. Rusland is de enige met zoveel skin in the game dat ze er niet meer uit kunnen en zij zullen het daar moeten oplossen. (lees; bevolking met brute kracht onder duim houden en Assad terug deftig op zijn paard zetten.)
Anderzijds moeten we ons idd niet laten wijsmaken dat deze actie er kwam voor de Syrische bevolking. Dit is meer gericht op het bewaken van onze eigen veiligheid, dat wij geen chemische wapens op ons dak krijgen in toekomstige oorlogen.
Anderzijds moeten we ons idd niet laten wijsmaken dat deze actie er kwam voor de Syrische bevolking. Dit is meer gericht op het bewaken van onze eigen veiligheid, dat wij geen chemische wapens op ons dak krijgen in toekomstige oorlogen.
k995
Legacy Member
Mensen die zichzelf wijsmaken dat assad niet achter de chemische aanvallen zat : (niet van mij van reddit)
Starting off I'm only using information from the UN and the Fact Finding Missions (FFM) it set out. The head of the first fact finding mission was Dr. Åke Sellström, who previously worked as part of the team in 2002 that found no WMDs in Iraq and the 1990s disarming of the Iraqi Chemical Program.
The final UN report "United Nations Mission to Investigate Allegations of the Use of Chemical Weapons in the Syrian Arab Republic Final report" covers the UN and OPCW Syrian Chemical Weapons FFM starting with the first confirmed chemical weapon, the March 21st Khan al-Assal chemical attack( overview starts page 5) in Aleppo. "Wait marinesol don't you mean the august ghouta attacks!" No, ghouta was not the first chemical attack with sarin. The Khan al-Assal chemical attack is kind of forgotten, but it was the first. Witnesses claimed a rocket landed inside of Syrian Army territory and exploded dispensing Sarin. 26 died and roughly 100 hundred were injuredThe Investigation was a clusterfuck, because the impact site was damaged.
Read the whole report here, the individual report starts on page 30
Due to the deteriorating security situation, the United Nations Mission was not able to conduct an on-site visit to Khan Al Asal and therefore was not in a position to collect environmental samples. In addition, six months following the incident, the probative value of such samples would be negligible. Pg.14
Everybody blamed everybody, and the UN could not make a definitive statement. Just over a month later around Aleppo in a small town named Saraqib another chemical attack occurred. This time witnesses claimed a Syrian Army helicopter dropped a cannister that emitted a white trail. 1 person died and 20 were injured. The body was later autopsied and evidence of sarin damage was found.
During an autopsy that was observed by members of the United Nations Mission, samples of several organs from the deceased woman’s body were recovered for subsequent analysis. The results from most of these organs clearly indicated signatures of a previous Sarin exposure. pg. 16
Again the United Nations could not conclude with certainty
Now Onto the Ghouta Attack which has its own separate report "Report of the United Nations Mission to Investigate Allegations of the Use of Chemical Weapons in the Syrian Arab Republic on the alleged use of chemical weapons in the Ghouta area of Damascus on 21 August 2013 "
The report concludes (starting page 8)
On the basis of the evidence obtained during our investigation of the Ghouta incident, the conclusion is that, on 21 August 2013, chemical weapons have been used in the ongoing conflict between the parties in the Syrian Arab Republic, also against civilians, including children, on a relatively large scale.
In particular, the environmental, chemical and medical samples we have collected provide clear and convincing evidence that surface-to-surface rockets containing the nerve agent Sarin were used in Ein Tarma, Moadamiyah and Zamalka in the Ghouta area of Damascus.
The facts supporting this conclusion are: • Impacted and exploded surface-to-surface rockets, capable to carry a chemical payload, were found to contain Sarin. • Close to the rocket impact sites, in the area where patients were affected, the environment was found to be contaminated by Sarin. • Over fifty interviews given by survivors and health care workers provided ample corroboration of the medical and scientific results. • A number of patients/survivors were clearly diagnosed as intoxicated by an organophosphorous compound. • Blood and urine samples from the same patients were found positive for Sarin and Sarin signatures.
The reports determined that rockets were not detonated by ground explosives due lack of damage to surrounding areas which is given in the first paragraph of Appendix 5 (pg. 21). This also is shown in the chemical analysis on Appendix 7 (pg.30). Just go read the report and see the pictures of the crater sites and rocket fragments.
Back to the Final Report
Following the Ghouta attack the Syrian Government claimed that the rebels had attacked them 3 times with sarin gas in the week following. The Ashrafiyat Sahnaya attack August 25th 2013(pg20), Jobar sarin attack August 24 2013(pg18), and the Al-Bahariyah August 22nd 2013(pg17).
These are weird not the least of which is their timing and the fact that noone died. The Al-Bahariyah attack had no evidence to back it up. The Jobar attack the team had to rely on soil sample analyisis from Syrian Government, because they had destroyed the attack site with anti mine equipment. Ashrafiyat Sahnaya all the blood samples taken by the UN were negative just 1 day after the attack.
Now this is where we start getting direct confirmation from the OPCW and UN the Syrian Government is using chemical weapons.
We aren't done yet not by a long shot.
The chemical attacks slowed, but they definitely didn't stop.
Here is a set of reports from the Third report of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons-United Nations Joint Investigative Mechanism involving chemical weapons.
Talmenes 21st April 2014 (pg. 43) where
“Talmenes village was attacked with toxic chemicals on two separate occasions, first on 21 April 2014 and again on 24 April 2014.” (S/2015/138, page 35, paragraph 5.6)
Here are the narratives of both sides
Opposition
The FFM report (S/2015/138) stated that on 21 April 2014, between 1030 and 1045 hours, two “barrel bombs” were dropped on the village in the neighbourhood around the “big mosque”. They impacted on two residential properties. The people from the neighbourhood sought refuge from the air strike at an olive grove to the east of the village. A honey-wax-to-yellow coloured gas cloud rose from the impact of one of the bombs to a height of some 50-75 m. It was very dense and the smell of the released gas was pungent, irritating and “of chlorine”. This cloud settled along with the wind towards the east at a height of some 1-1.5 m above the ground and covered the main escape route to the east. Approximately 200 people were affected and three people died. pg. 44
Syrian Government
The Government of the Syrian Arab Republic confirmed that there was an incident in Talmenes on 21 April 2014. According to their description, an armed opposition group fired a projectile from Ma’ar Shamarin (south of Talmenes) that fell in the centre of the village, close to a residential house which is one of the residential properties mentioned in paragraph 10 above. The impact caused substantial damage and two people died. The Government further said that armed opposition group used this incident to accuse the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) to have fired a projectile armed with chlorine gas. This description did not include any information on the use of chlorine gas or affected people. One witne ss said to have heard the explosion and smelled an odour like “rotten eggs”, but did not see any injured people. pg. 44
There is just a few holes in the Syrian governments story see if you can spot it.
The Government of the Syrian Arab Republic provided the name of the owner of the house that had been targeted in the attack by armed opposition groups that they described. The name corresponds to the name of the owner of the house at location #2. The Government had stated that this person had died in the attack; however, this person was interviewed by the FFM several months afte r the attack.
also
The videos from this impact location (v02) show a lot of destruction and damage to the structure of the house. The munition is understood to have impacted a concrete block building and resulted in extensive damage to the structure. Large quantities of rubble and other building debris are visible. As a result, there is not a clear view of the crater; however, a crater-like structure is visible. The video shows yellowing leaves on the trees and dead leaves on the ground.
The forensic analysis of the destruction at location #2 indicates that it is possible that the structural damage to the building could have been caused by the detonation of a barrel bomb. The large size of the remnants, they argue, would indicate that either the device contained explosives that did not detonate, or that it only contained a small amount of explosives.
The rocket-propelled munition type indicated by the Government of the Syrian Arab Republic is, according to munition experts, almost certainly a conventional high-explosive type. Such an amount of explosives, estimated to be at least 200 kg, would have totally destroyed the house at location #2 and possibly a number of surrounding buildings. The damage seen in the available pictures and footage at location #2 is inconsistent with this assessment. pg. 48
If you still can't figure it out here's the conclusion.
The Leadership Panel examined the existing information regarding the two impact locations in Talmenes on 21 April 2014. There is sufficient information for the Leadership Panel to conclude that the incident at impact location #2 was caused by a SAAF helicopter dropping a device causing damage to the structure of a concrete block building house and was followed by the release of a toxic substance which affected the population. pg 50
Also There is Sarmin on March 16 2015 (starts pg76)
Now I won't divulge everything, because seriously just read the damn report and we need to get to 2017. I'll just leave you with the conclusions.
The Leadership Panel examined the existing information regarding the two impact locations in Sarmin on 16 March 2015. There is sufficient information for the Leadership Panel to conclude that the incident at impact location #2 was caused by an SAAF helicopter dropping a device which hit the house and was followed by the release of a toxic substance, which match the characteristics of chlorine, that was fatal to all (6) occupants. The remnants of the device are consistent with the construction of a barrel bomb pg 85
Now I want you to look near the start of this post you see that report number (S/2015/138). That is not this report I'm using that is a separate report. Here is the report "Letter dated 25 February 2015 from the Secretary-General addressed to the President of the Security Council "
Here is the first part of the report
Progress in the elimination of the Syrian chemical weapons programme pg 3
The Syrian Government was using chemical weapons while it was supposed to be handing over those chemical weapons.
Now I know the Syrian Government got caught using Chlorine by the UN, but surely they aren't dumb enough to use Sarin again.
Well here's "Seventh report of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons-United Nations Joint Investigative Mechanism"
I know you are all tired of this shit so go to page 9 or page 20 if you want to read the FFM
Khan Shaykhun
Using the findings of the Fact-Finding Mission as a starting point, the Mechanism conducted a comprehensive investigation into the release of sarin at Khan Shaykhun on 4 April 2017. The Mechanism interviewed 17 witnesses in addition to those interviewed by the Fact-Finding Mission and collected and reviewed material not obtained by the Fact-Finding Mission. The Mechanism obtained substantial information on activities of the Syrian Arab Air Force on 4 April 2017.
The Mechanism examined eight possible scenarios regarding how the incident had occurred. On the basis of the information obtained, the following two scenarios were further investigated: (a) sarin had been released through an aerial bomb; or (b) sarin had been released through the explosion of an improvised explosive device placed on the ground. A third scenario with two alternatives was also investigated, neither of which was found to be linked to the release of sarin.
The Mechanism determined that sarin had been released from the location of a crater in the northern part of Khan Shaykhun between 0630 and 0700 hours on 4 April 2017.
On the basis of their review of photographs, videos and satellite images, the forensic institutes and individual experts engaged by the Mechanism determined that the crater had most likely been caused by a heavy object travelling at high velocity, such as an aerial bomb with a small explosive charge. Examining the munition remnants observed inside the crater, the institutes and experts concluded that the remnants were pieces of a thin-walled munition from 300 to 500 mm in diameter and were likely from an aerial bomb.
The Mechanism also examined whether an improvised explosive device could have caused the crater. While that possibility could not be completely ruled out, the experts determined that that scenario was less likely, because an improvised explosive device would have caused more damage to the surroundings than had been observed at the scene. Furthermore, no witnesses had reported the placement or explosion of an improvised explosive device from the ground.
The Mechanism received information about the operation of Syrian Arab Air Force aircraft in the area of Khan Shaykhun indicating that such aircraft may have been in a position to launch aerial bombs in the vicinity. At the same time, however, Syrian Arab Air Force flight records and other records provided by the Syrian Arab Republic make no mention of Khan Shaykhun on 4 April 2017. Furthermore, a representative of the Syrian Arab Air Force stated to the Mechanism that no Syrian Arab Air Force aircraft had attacked Khan Shaykhun on 4 April 2017.
The Mechanism received conflicting information about the deployment of aircraft in Khan Shaykhun that morning. On 6 and 13 April 2017, the Government of the Syrian Arab Republic had made public statements that the Syrian Arab Air Force had bombed Khan Shaykhun with conventional bombs at approximately 1130 to 1200 hours. Furthermore, the Mechanism obtained original video footage from two separate witnesses that showed four plumes caused by explosives across Khan S/2017/904 10/33 17-18978 Shaykhun. The footage was confirmed by forensic analysis to be authentic and to have been filmed in Khan Shaykhun between 0642 and 0652 hours on 4 April 2017.
The Mechanism examined the nature of the rescue and health-care operations following the mass casualty situation caused by the release of sarin in Khan Shaykhun. At present, the Mechanism cannot verify the total number of persons who either died or were injured as a result of the attack, but concludes, on the basis of its interviews with victims and medical personnel, its review of medical records and its consultations with medical experts whom it has engaged, that the response to the incident largely correlated to the reported number of casualties and victims.
The Mechanism commissioned an in-depth laboratory study of the origin of the precursor chemical methylphosphonyl difluoride (DF) used to produce the binary sarin released in Khan Shaykhun. The study revealed that the sarin had most likely been made with the precursor DF from the original stock from the Syrian Arab Republic. An initial screening of reports concerning previous incidents of the release of sarin in the Syrian Arab Republic showed that some “marker chemicals” appeared to be present in environmental samples. This would warrant further study. This finding relates only to the origin of the DF used as a precursor, not to those responsible for the dissemination of sarin.
With respect to identifying those responsible, the Leadership Panel has determined that the information that it has obtained constitutes sufficient credible and reliable evidence of the following: (a) Aircraft dropped munitions over Khan Shaykhun between 0630 and 0700 hours on 4 April 2017; (b) An aircraft of the Syrian Arab Republic was in the immediate vicinit y of Khan Shaykhun between 0630 and 0700 hours on 4 April 2017; (c) The crater from which the sarin emanated was created on the morning of 4 April 2017; (d) The crater was caused by the impact of an aerial bomb travelling at high velocity; (e) A large number of people were affected by sarin between 0630 and 0700 hours on the morning of 4 April 2017; (f) The number of persons affected by the release of sarin on 4 April 2017, and the fact that sarin reportedly continued to be present at the site of the cr ater 10 days after the incident, indicate that a large amount of sarin was likely released, which is consistent with its being dispersed through a chemical aerial bomb; (g) The symptoms of victims and their medical treatment, as well as the scale of the incident, are consistent with a large-scale intoxication of sarin; (h) The sarin identified in the samples taken from Khan Shaykhun was found to have most likely been made with a precursor (DF) from the original stockpile of the Syrian Arab Republic; (i) The irregularities described in annex II are not of such a nature as to call into question the aforementioned findings. On the basis of the foregoing, the Leadership Panel is confident that the Syrian Arab Republic is responsible for the release of sarin at Khan Shaykhun on 4 April 2017. The findings of the Leadership Panel regarding the evidence in this case are based on the information set forth in detail in annex II.
Yeah I know fucking it's long go back and read it asshole this is important.
The UN found that not only had Syria used Sarin gas via airstrike, but that also the Syrian had never really turned in all of their Sarin precursors.
An epilogue. I don't know why a government would gas its own citizens, I also don't know why a country would murder a 1/4 of citizens, or why a government would continue a brutal war largely to avoid a humiliating defeat. What I know is that scientists with decades of experience in chemical weapons and who have previously called out Bullshit claims are pointing very clearly at Syria and are saying that what is happening there is not bullshit. They tell us how and who, but not why.
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/8bztma/russian_military_says_that_an_alleged_chemical/
Starting off I'm only using information from the UN and the Fact Finding Missions (FFM) it set out. The head of the first fact finding mission was Dr. Åke Sellström, who previously worked as part of the team in 2002 that found no WMDs in Iraq and the 1990s disarming of the Iraqi Chemical Program.
The final UN report "United Nations Mission to Investigate Allegations of the Use of Chemical Weapons in the Syrian Arab Republic Final report" covers the UN and OPCW Syrian Chemical Weapons FFM starting with the first confirmed chemical weapon, the March 21st Khan al-Assal chemical attack( overview starts page 5) in Aleppo. "Wait marinesol don't you mean the august ghouta attacks!" No, ghouta was not the first chemical attack with sarin. The Khan al-Assal chemical attack is kind of forgotten, but it was the first. Witnesses claimed a rocket landed inside of Syrian Army territory and exploded dispensing Sarin. 26 died and roughly 100 hundred were injuredThe Investigation was a clusterfuck, because the impact site was damaged.
Read the whole report here, the individual report starts on page 30
Due to the deteriorating security situation, the United Nations Mission was not able to conduct an on-site visit to Khan Al Asal and therefore was not in a position to collect environmental samples. In addition, six months following the incident, the probative value of such samples would be negligible. Pg.14
Everybody blamed everybody, and the UN could not make a definitive statement. Just over a month later around Aleppo in a small town named Saraqib another chemical attack occurred. This time witnesses claimed a Syrian Army helicopter dropped a cannister that emitted a white trail. 1 person died and 20 were injured. The body was later autopsied and evidence of sarin damage was found.
During an autopsy that was observed by members of the United Nations Mission, samples of several organs from the deceased woman’s body were recovered for subsequent analysis. The results from most of these organs clearly indicated signatures of a previous Sarin exposure. pg. 16
Again the United Nations could not conclude with certainty
Now Onto the Ghouta Attack which has its own separate report "Report of the United Nations Mission to Investigate Allegations of the Use of Chemical Weapons in the Syrian Arab Republic on the alleged use of chemical weapons in the Ghouta area of Damascus on 21 August 2013 "
The report concludes (starting page 8)
On the basis of the evidence obtained during our investigation of the Ghouta incident, the conclusion is that, on 21 August 2013, chemical weapons have been used in the ongoing conflict between the parties in the Syrian Arab Republic, also against civilians, including children, on a relatively large scale.
In particular, the environmental, chemical and medical samples we have collected provide clear and convincing evidence that surface-to-surface rockets containing the nerve agent Sarin were used in Ein Tarma, Moadamiyah and Zamalka in the Ghouta area of Damascus.
The facts supporting this conclusion are: • Impacted and exploded surface-to-surface rockets, capable to carry a chemical payload, were found to contain Sarin. • Close to the rocket impact sites, in the area where patients were affected, the environment was found to be contaminated by Sarin. • Over fifty interviews given by survivors and health care workers provided ample corroboration of the medical and scientific results. • A number of patients/survivors were clearly diagnosed as intoxicated by an organophosphorous compound. • Blood and urine samples from the same patients were found positive for Sarin and Sarin signatures.
The reports determined that rockets were not detonated by ground explosives due lack of damage to surrounding areas which is given in the first paragraph of Appendix 5 (pg. 21). This also is shown in the chemical analysis on Appendix 7 (pg.30). Just go read the report and see the pictures of the crater sites and rocket fragments.
Back to the Final Report
Following the Ghouta attack the Syrian Government claimed that the rebels had attacked them 3 times with sarin gas in the week following. The Ashrafiyat Sahnaya attack August 25th 2013(pg20), Jobar sarin attack August 24 2013(pg18), and the Al-Bahariyah August 22nd 2013(pg17).
These are weird not the least of which is their timing and the fact that noone died. The Al-Bahariyah attack had no evidence to back it up. The Jobar attack the team had to rely on soil sample analyisis from Syrian Government, because they had destroyed the attack site with anti mine equipment. Ashrafiyat Sahnaya all the blood samples taken by the UN were negative just 1 day after the attack.
Now this is where we start getting direct confirmation from the OPCW and UN the Syrian Government is using chemical weapons.
We aren't done yet not by a long shot.
The chemical attacks slowed, but they definitely didn't stop.
Here is a set of reports from the Third report of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons-United Nations Joint Investigative Mechanism involving chemical weapons.
Talmenes 21st April 2014 (pg. 43) where
“Talmenes village was attacked with toxic chemicals on two separate occasions, first on 21 April 2014 and again on 24 April 2014.” (S/2015/138, page 35, paragraph 5.6)
Here are the narratives of both sides
Opposition
The FFM report (S/2015/138) stated that on 21 April 2014, between 1030 and 1045 hours, two “barrel bombs” were dropped on the village in the neighbourhood around the “big mosque”. They impacted on two residential properties. The people from the neighbourhood sought refuge from the air strike at an olive grove to the east of the village. A honey-wax-to-yellow coloured gas cloud rose from the impact of one of the bombs to a height of some 50-75 m. It was very dense and the smell of the released gas was pungent, irritating and “of chlorine”. This cloud settled along with the wind towards the east at a height of some 1-1.5 m above the ground and covered the main escape route to the east. Approximately 200 people were affected and three people died. pg. 44
Syrian Government
The Government of the Syrian Arab Republic confirmed that there was an incident in Talmenes on 21 April 2014. According to their description, an armed opposition group fired a projectile from Ma’ar Shamarin (south of Talmenes) that fell in the centre of the village, close to a residential house which is one of the residential properties mentioned in paragraph 10 above. The impact caused substantial damage and two people died. The Government further said that armed opposition group used this incident to accuse the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) to have fired a projectile armed with chlorine gas. This description did not include any information on the use of chlorine gas or affected people. One witne ss said to have heard the explosion and smelled an odour like “rotten eggs”, but did not see any injured people. pg. 44
There is just a few holes in the Syrian governments story see if you can spot it.
The Government of the Syrian Arab Republic provided the name of the owner of the house that had been targeted in the attack by armed opposition groups that they described. The name corresponds to the name of the owner of the house at location #2. The Government had stated that this person had died in the attack; however, this person was interviewed by the FFM several months afte r the attack.
also
The videos from this impact location (v02) show a lot of destruction and damage to the structure of the house. The munition is understood to have impacted a concrete block building and resulted in extensive damage to the structure. Large quantities of rubble and other building debris are visible. As a result, there is not a clear view of the crater; however, a crater-like structure is visible. The video shows yellowing leaves on the trees and dead leaves on the ground.
The forensic analysis of the destruction at location #2 indicates that it is possible that the structural damage to the building could have been caused by the detonation of a barrel bomb. The large size of the remnants, they argue, would indicate that either the device contained explosives that did not detonate, or that it only contained a small amount of explosives.
The rocket-propelled munition type indicated by the Government of the Syrian Arab Republic is, according to munition experts, almost certainly a conventional high-explosive type. Such an amount of explosives, estimated to be at least 200 kg, would have totally destroyed the house at location #2 and possibly a number of surrounding buildings. The damage seen in the available pictures and footage at location #2 is inconsistent with this assessment. pg. 48
If you still can't figure it out here's the conclusion.
The Leadership Panel examined the existing information regarding the two impact locations in Talmenes on 21 April 2014. There is sufficient information for the Leadership Panel to conclude that the incident at impact location #2 was caused by a SAAF helicopter dropping a device causing damage to the structure of a concrete block building house and was followed by the release of a toxic substance which affected the population. pg 50
Also There is Sarmin on March 16 2015 (starts pg76)
Now I won't divulge everything, because seriously just read the damn report and we need to get to 2017. I'll just leave you with the conclusions.
The Leadership Panel examined the existing information regarding the two impact locations in Sarmin on 16 March 2015. There is sufficient information for the Leadership Panel to conclude that the incident at impact location #2 was caused by an SAAF helicopter dropping a device which hit the house and was followed by the release of a toxic substance, which match the characteristics of chlorine, that was fatal to all (6) occupants. The remnants of the device are consistent with the construction of a barrel bomb pg 85
Now I want you to look near the start of this post you see that report number (S/2015/138). That is not this report I'm using that is a separate report. Here is the report "Letter dated 25 February 2015 from the Secretary-General addressed to the President of the Security Council "
Here is the first part of the report
Progress in the elimination of the Syrian chemical weapons programme pg 3
The Syrian Government was using chemical weapons while it was supposed to be handing over those chemical weapons.
Now I know the Syrian Government got caught using Chlorine by the UN, but surely they aren't dumb enough to use Sarin again.
Well here's "Seventh report of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons-United Nations Joint Investigative Mechanism"
I know you are all tired of this shit so go to page 9 or page 20 if you want to read the FFM
Khan Shaykhun
Using the findings of the Fact-Finding Mission as a starting point, the Mechanism conducted a comprehensive investigation into the release of sarin at Khan Shaykhun on 4 April 2017. The Mechanism interviewed 17 witnesses in addition to those interviewed by the Fact-Finding Mission and collected and reviewed material not obtained by the Fact-Finding Mission. The Mechanism obtained substantial information on activities of the Syrian Arab Air Force on 4 April 2017.
The Mechanism examined eight possible scenarios regarding how the incident had occurred. On the basis of the information obtained, the following two scenarios were further investigated: (a) sarin had been released through an aerial bomb; or (b) sarin had been released through the explosion of an improvised explosive device placed on the ground. A third scenario with two alternatives was also investigated, neither of which was found to be linked to the release of sarin.
The Mechanism determined that sarin had been released from the location of a crater in the northern part of Khan Shaykhun between 0630 and 0700 hours on 4 April 2017.
On the basis of their review of photographs, videos and satellite images, the forensic institutes and individual experts engaged by the Mechanism determined that the crater had most likely been caused by a heavy object travelling at high velocity, such as an aerial bomb with a small explosive charge. Examining the munition remnants observed inside the crater, the institutes and experts concluded that the remnants were pieces of a thin-walled munition from 300 to 500 mm in diameter and were likely from an aerial bomb.
The Mechanism also examined whether an improvised explosive device could have caused the crater. While that possibility could not be completely ruled out, the experts determined that that scenario was less likely, because an improvised explosive device would have caused more damage to the surroundings than had been observed at the scene. Furthermore, no witnesses had reported the placement or explosion of an improvised explosive device from the ground.
The Mechanism received information about the operation of Syrian Arab Air Force aircraft in the area of Khan Shaykhun indicating that such aircraft may have been in a position to launch aerial bombs in the vicinity. At the same time, however, Syrian Arab Air Force flight records and other records provided by the Syrian Arab Republic make no mention of Khan Shaykhun on 4 April 2017. Furthermore, a representative of the Syrian Arab Air Force stated to the Mechanism that no Syrian Arab Air Force aircraft had attacked Khan Shaykhun on 4 April 2017.
The Mechanism received conflicting information about the deployment of aircraft in Khan Shaykhun that morning. On 6 and 13 April 2017, the Government of the Syrian Arab Republic had made public statements that the Syrian Arab Air Force had bombed Khan Shaykhun with conventional bombs at approximately 1130 to 1200 hours. Furthermore, the Mechanism obtained original video footage from two separate witnesses that showed four plumes caused by explosives across Khan S/2017/904 10/33 17-18978 Shaykhun. The footage was confirmed by forensic analysis to be authentic and to have been filmed in Khan Shaykhun between 0642 and 0652 hours on 4 April 2017.
The Mechanism examined the nature of the rescue and health-care operations following the mass casualty situation caused by the release of sarin in Khan Shaykhun. At present, the Mechanism cannot verify the total number of persons who either died or were injured as a result of the attack, but concludes, on the basis of its interviews with victims and medical personnel, its review of medical records and its consultations with medical experts whom it has engaged, that the response to the incident largely correlated to the reported number of casualties and victims.
The Mechanism commissioned an in-depth laboratory study of the origin of the precursor chemical methylphosphonyl difluoride (DF) used to produce the binary sarin released in Khan Shaykhun. The study revealed that the sarin had most likely been made with the precursor DF from the original stock from the Syrian Arab Republic. An initial screening of reports concerning previous incidents of the release of sarin in the Syrian Arab Republic showed that some “marker chemicals” appeared to be present in environmental samples. This would warrant further study. This finding relates only to the origin of the DF used as a precursor, not to those responsible for the dissemination of sarin.
With respect to identifying those responsible, the Leadership Panel has determined that the information that it has obtained constitutes sufficient credible and reliable evidence of the following: (a) Aircraft dropped munitions over Khan Shaykhun between 0630 and 0700 hours on 4 April 2017; (b) An aircraft of the Syrian Arab Republic was in the immediate vicinit y of Khan Shaykhun between 0630 and 0700 hours on 4 April 2017; (c) The crater from which the sarin emanated was created on the morning of 4 April 2017; (d) The crater was caused by the impact of an aerial bomb travelling at high velocity; (e) A large number of people were affected by sarin between 0630 and 0700 hours on the morning of 4 April 2017; (f) The number of persons affected by the release of sarin on 4 April 2017, and the fact that sarin reportedly continued to be present at the site of the cr ater 10 days after the incident, indicate that a large amount of sarin was likely released, which is consistent with its being dispersed through a chemical aerial bomb; (g) The symptoms of victims and their medical treatment, as well as the scale of the incident, are consistent with a large-scale intoxication of sarin; (h) The sarin identified in the samples taken from Khan Shaykhun was found to have most likely been made with a precursor (DF) from the original stockpile of the Syrian Arab Republic; (i) The irregularities described in annex II are not of such a nature as to call into question the aforementioned findings. On the basis of the foregoing, the Leadership Panel is confident that the Syrian Arab Republic is responsible for the release of sarin at Khan Shaykhun on 4 April 2017. The findings of the Leadership Panel regarding the evidence in this case are based on the information set forth in detail in annex II.
Yeah I know fucking it's long go back and read it asshole this is important.
The UN found that not only had Syria used Sarin gas via airstrike, but that also the Syrian had never really turned in all of their Sarin precursors.
An epilogue. I don't know why a government would gas its own citizens, I also don't know why a country would murder a 1/4 of citizens, or why a government would continue a brutal war largely to avoid a humiliating defeat. What I know is that scientists with decades of experience in chemical weapons and who have previously called out Bullshit claims are pointing very clearly at Syria and are saying that what is happening there is not bullshit. They tell us how and who, but not why.
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/8bztma/russian_military_says_that_an_alleged_chemical/
mac-bc
Legacy Member
denkimi zei:
Ik heb hier al uitgelegd hoe dictators ervoor zorgen dat ze "populair" blijven onder hun bevolking. Heeft iemand daar een reactie op, of gaan we gewoon blijven herhalen hoe populair hij is?
Het is echt niet zo moeilijk om als dictator populair te zijn hoor. Populair zijn op een democratische manier, met respect voor de mensenrechten en met respect voor elke minderheid, DAT is de kunst.
Lakigigar
Legacy Member
Post van Kim De Witte op Facebook
De VS, UK en Frankrijk bombarderen dus Syrische kinderen, mannen en vrouwen als wraak op #bombardementen op Syrische kinderen, mannen en vrouwen? Kan het nog cynischer?
De bombardementen vonden plaats enkele uren voordat de internationale gezanten van de #VerenigdeNaties gingen toekomen om te onderzoeken of er chemische wapens gebruikt werden en door wie. Hoe verdacht is dat?! Iedereen herinnert zich #Irak en de zogezegde massavernietigingswapens die er niet waren.
Als de VS, UK en Frankrijk zo begaan zijn met het menselijk leed in Syrië, hoeveel Syrische #vluchtelingen willen ze dan opvangen? Ik zocht het voor u op: amper 11 in de VS in 2018 (!) (zie https://n.pr/2GTENC9
). Meer dan 18.000 vluchtelingen werden door Trump teruggestuurd. De hypocrisie voorbij!
Deze #oorlogsdaad is een schending van alle regels van internationaal recht. De VS, UK en Frankrijk spelen baas, rechter en politieman over de wereld. Daarachter zitten grote economische belangen: controle over de grootste #oliereserves. De VS heeft in de Syrische oorlog gewed op terroristische groeperingen om haar belangrijkste doelwit te bereiken: de verwijdering van Assad, het derde van de zgn. ‘four evil regimes’ (naast Irak, Libië en Iran). Door de tussenkomst van Rusland is dit niet gelukt en zijn de krachtsverhoudingen in de streek gekanteld. De VS probeert nu, met steun van de NATO-landen, haar greep op het Midden-Oosten te behouden. En wat levert dat op? Nog meer slachtoffers, radicalisering, terrorisme en vluchtelingen, ook bij ons. Assad is geen engeltje. En gebruik van chemische wapens is terecht verboden. Maar deze bombardementen brengen ons geen stap dichter bij de waarheid over de chemische wapens, noch bij een oplossing.
De VS, UK en Frankrijk bombarderen dus Syrische kinderen, mannen en vrouwen als wraak op #bombardementen op Syrische kinderen, mannen en vrouwen? Kan het nog cynischer? De bombardementen vonden plaats enkele uren voordat de internationale gezanten van de #VerenigdeNaties gingen toekomen om te onderzoeken of er chemische wapens gebruikt werden en door wie. Hoe verdacht is dat?! Iedereen herinnert zich #Irak en de zogezegde massavernietigingswapens die er niet waren. Als de VS, UK en Frankrijk zo begaan zijn met het menselijk leed in Syrië, hoeveel Syrische #vluchtelingen willen ze dan opvangen? Ik zocht het voor u op: amper 11 in de VS in 2018 (!) (zie https://n.pr/2GTENC9). Meer dan 18.000 vluchtelingen werden door Trump teruggestuurd. De hypocrisie voorbij!
Deze #oorlogsdaad is een schending van alle regels van internationaal recht. De VS, UK en Frankrijk spelen baas, rechter en politieman over de wereld. Daarachter zitten grote economische belangen: controle over de grootste #oliereserves. De VS heeft in de Syrische oorlog gewed op terroristische groeperingen om haar belangrijkste doelwit te bereiken: de verwijdering van Assad, het derde van de zgn. ‘four evil regimes’ (naast Irak, Libië en Iran). Door de tussenkomst van Rusland is dit niet gelukt en zijn de krachtsverhoudingen in de streek gekanteld. De VS probeert nu, met steun van de NATO-landen, haar greep op het Midden-Oosten te behouden. En wat levert dat op? Nog meer slachtoffers, radicalisering, terrorisme en vluchtelingen, ook bij ons. Assad is geen engeltje. En gebruik van chemische wapens is terecht verboden. Maar deze bombardementen brengen ons geen stap dichter bij de waarheid over de chemische wapens, noch bij een oplossing.
mac-bc
Legacy Member
Lakigigar zei:
1) Dat is geen artikel, dat is een opiniestuk. Een zeer slecht opiniestuk overigens.
2) Na de eerste zin weet je al onmiddellijk dat deze "filosoof" geen filosofische benadering zal doen, maar een politieke benadering. "De VS met zijn immer trouwe vazallen", is exact hoe de Russische staatsmedia telkens het sterke en breed gedragen bondgenootschap tussen de Amerikanen en de Europeanen benoemt, om aan framing te doen. Ze willen daarmee de waarde van de sterke bondgenootschappen van de VS doelbewust reduceren tot een meester-slaaf relatie, om de gegrondheid in twijfel te trekken en de VS moreel te isoleren. Ik noteer dat onze "filosoof" hier (lees: Russofiele politicus) deze Russische staatspropaganda vrolijk mee helpt verspreiden.
3) Al snel blijkt dat zijn Russofiele gedachten werkelijk geen grenzen kennen. Hij slaagt er zelfs in om schaamteloos het volgende neer te pennen:
Nog los van het feit dat hij de Westerse interventie in Syrië al direct per definitie afdoet als machtspolitiek terwijl hij de Russische interventie heilig verklaart, moet je eens goed lezen wat hij durft schrijven. Misschien moet onze toogfilosoof eens in Oekraïne gaan vragen hoe Rusland dit beginsel concreet in de praktijk brengt? What the actual fuck eigenlijk.
De rest staat ook vol fouten, verkeerde assumpties en diabolisering van het Westen en verheerlijking van de Russen. Heeft het eigenlijk nog nut om daar verder op te reageren? Je kunt evengoed met een gebrainwashte Rus discussiëren.
mac-bc
Legacy Member
Lakigigar zei:Post van Kim De Witte op Facebook
). Meer dan 18.000 vluchtelingen werden door Trump teruggestuurd. De hypocrisie voorbij!
Deze #oorlogsdaad is een schending van alle regels van internationaal recht. De VS, UK en Frankrijk spelen baas, rechter en politieman over de wereld. Daarachter zitten grote economische belangen: controle over de grootste #oliereserves. De VS heeft in de Syrische oorlog gewed op terroristische groeperingen om haar belangrijkste doelwit te bereiken: de verwijdering van Assad, het derde van de zgn. ‘four evil regimes’ (naast Irak, Libië en Iran). Door de tussenkomst van Rusland is dit niet gelukt en zijn de krachtsverhoudingen in de streek gekanteld. De VS probeert nu, met steun van de NATO-landen, haar greep op het Midden-Oosten te behouden. En wat levert dat op? Nog meer slachtoffers, radicalisering, terrorisme en vluchtelingen, ook bij ons. Assad is geen engeltje. En gebruik van chemische wapens is terecht verboden. Maar deze bombardementen brengen ons geen stap dichter bij de waarheid over de chemische wapens, noch bij een oplossing.
Ik word zo kwaad van dit soort fake news van domme mensen. Wie is die kerel überhaupt? Stop toch met deze bullshit te verspreiden.
1) Er is geen sprake van gedode burgerslachtoffers.
2) De te onderzoeken plaats is op geen enkele manier geraakt.
3) Hoeveel vluchtelingen vangt Rusland op? En hoeveel vluchtelingen vangen Frankrijk, de UK en de VS op?
4) Met zo'n beperkte aanval forceer je toch geen regimewissel? Wat voor bullshit is dat nu? Dat blijkt niet uit de statements en dat blijkt niet uit de feiten. Ken je dat, "feiten"?
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