Archief - Buitenlands voetbal 2009-2010 - deel 3
Het archief is een bevroren moment uit een vorige versie van dit forum, met andere regels en andere bazen. Deze posts weerspiegelen op geen enkele manier onze huidige ideeën, waarden of wereldbeelden en zijn op sommige plaatsen gecensureerd wegens ontoelaatbaar. Veel zijn in een andere tijdsgeest gemaakt, al dan niet ironisch - zoals in het ironische subforum Off-Topic - en zouden op dit moment niet meer gepost (mogen) worden. Toch bieden we dit archief nog graag aan als informatiedatabank en naslagwerk. Lees er hier meer over of start een gesprek met anderen.
Morrissey
Legacy Member
Champions League Finale is 22 mei, hopelijk zijn we daar én haalt hij het... boozeke
Legacy Member
kerel,zet da dan toch in spoiler.Reco_1986 zei:Allé kom, zoek die gesprekken van Moggi op en kom terug naar hier verder discussieren.
Hier ik zal helpen:
The Wiretaps (Part 1)
The following (translated) transcripts appear to show that Pierluigi Pairetto (member of UEFA’s Referees Commission and President of the Italian Referees’ Association) arranged a ‘friendly’ referee for a Champions League match in Amsterdam – Urs Maier – and was expecting to be ‘remembered,’ something that Luciano Moggi guaranteed would happen.
Another introduces a novel form of payment – a Maserati. It would appear that Moggi turned to Juve’s powerful owners – the Agnelli family, who control car manufacturers Fiat - for a sports car that would be ‘a gift’ for ‘a friend’ who turns out to be Enzo: none other than Innocenzo Mazzini - the Italian Football Federation’s vice-President.
WARNING: These transcripts contain very strong language, and some text may not be translated 100% acurately!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moggi and Pairetto speak on the phone on August 11 2004 about the Champions League first leg preliminary round match between Juventus and Swedish side Djugarden which ended 2-2. German Referee Herbert Fandel disallowed a goal by Juve's Fabrizio Miccoli.
Pairetto: Hello!
Moggi: Gigi? Where are you?
Pairetti: We left.
Moggi: Oh, what kind of **** referee did you send us?
Pairetto: Oh, Fandel is one of the best.
Moggi: I know, but Miccoli’s goal was valid.
Pairetto: No it wasn’t.
Moggi: It was valid, it was valid!
Pairetto: No, it was right in front [of the ref].
Moggi: What are you talking about, it wasn't in front... all throughout the match he messed things up for us!
Pairetto: But he's one of the top...
Moggi: He can go and **** himself. And for Stockholm [the return leg] I'm counting on you!
Pairetto: For ****’s sake… mamma mia… this surely has to be a proper match.
Moggi: No, we’ll win, you know…
Pairetto: But they are poor.
Moggi: But with another one like this, it will be difficult no? You follow me?
The conversation then shifts to a discussion about some summer friendlies…
Moggi: Oh, at Messina send me Consolo and Battaglia.
Pairetto: Eh, I already did it.
Moggi: And who will you send us?
Pairetto: I think Consolo and Battaglia.
Moggi: Eh, with Cassara, eh?
Pairetto: Yes.
Moggi: And at Livorno, Rocchi?
Pairetto: At Livorno Rocchi, yes.
Moggi: And for the Trofeo Berlusconi [against Milan] - Pieri, please?
Pairetto: We have not done it yet.
Moggi: We shall do it later?
Pairetto: Ok we’ll do it later.
The referee at the Milan v Juve game on 28 August 2004 is Pieri and Juve win 1-0.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Juve won the return leg 4-1 in Stockholm, with England's Graham Poll refereeing. Two days before the game on August 23 2004, Moggi called the secretary of the Italian FA…
Moggi: Hello?
Morena: Mister Moggi, hello. I wanted to announce to you the referee and assistants for tomorrow night’s Champions League match.
Moggi: Who’s the referee, Cardoso?
Morena: No, I see Graham’ Poll’s name.
Moggi: Uhm…Where is he from?
Morena: He’s English.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A few minutes later, Moggi calls Pairetto…
Pairetto: Hello.
Moggi: Good morning.
Pairetto: Hey there, good morning!
Moggi: Oh, what about Cardoso, eh?
Pairetto: Eh?
Moggi: Paul Green (Moggi actually confused Graham Poll with Paul Green)
Pairetto: What?
Moggi: Paul Green!
Pairetto: Then something must have happened in the last moment, I have Cardoso, something must have happened… he must have been sick or something like that.
Moggi: Inform yourself!
Pairetto: Yes yes, I will.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two weeks before the first group match of the first phase of the 2004-05 Champions League, Pairetto announces the referee of that match against Ajax to Moggi…
Moggi: Hello.
Pairetto: Hey there, I know you forgot all about me, but I didn’t.
Moggi: Go on…
Pairetto: I placed a great referee for the Amsterdam match.
Moggi: Who?
Pairetto: Meier.
Moggi: Great!
Pairetto: Anyway, it was just to tell you this. You see that I still think about you, even though you don’t anymore…
Moggi: Don’t start, now you’ll see, when I’m back, that I didn't forget you.
Ajax played Juventus on September 15 2004; the referee was Urs Meier, from Switzerland. Juve won the game 1-0.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a conversation between Moggi and Giraudo on August 14 2004, talking about the referees’ designators…
Giraudo: We see immediately what kind of air there is; you have any news of how the atmosphere is there at Sportilia (referees’ centre)?
Moggi: Good, good with Gigi (Pairetto).
Giraudo: But it’s not like last year?
Moggi: No, no, with Gigi it’s great.
Giraudo: But now we tell him to work hard for this crow, because we cannot go on with this dick head.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moggi requests a car as ‘a gift’ for an important friend…
Secretary: Agnelli’s house, good morning.
Moggi: Good morning, I’m Moggi. I need Nalla.
Nalla: Hello Luciano.
Moggi: I need urgently, because we need to do…
Nalla: Yes.
Moggi: For an important friend, a Maserati!
Nalla: Yes.
Moggi: Four-door.
Nalla: Four-door?
Moggi: Yes. We give you a week’s time, ten days, ok?
Nalla: Ok!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A conversation takes place between Pairetto and Paolo Dondarini, the referee he had selected to officiate a Serie A match between Juventus and Sampdoria…
Pairetto: You know what you have to do. Make sure you see everything. Even that which isn't there.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back in 2004, Juventus had been tracking Ajax's Swedish striker Zlatan Ibrahimovic as a possible transfer target. Moggi rang Antonio Giraudo, chief executive of Juventus, to tell him that Ibrahimovic had scored a hat-trick for Ajax.
Moggi: What the hell! But I specifically told him to play badly.
Giraudo: I told him! We had agreed that he would play badly, go see the manager after the game, tell him that he would never play for them again and demand that he be sold to us.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pairetto then talks to the vice-President of the FIGC Innocenzo Mazzini (Enzo)…
Enzo: Hello?
Pairetto: Enzo?
Enzo: Hello Gigi.
Pairetto: Listen, I wanted to tell you that I practically have the car.
Enzo: Which?
Pairetto: So when we want to go pick it up there is practically available the Maserati.
Enzo: Come on…
Pairetti: Yes, therefore...
Enzo: Madonna!
Pairetto: Now when I’m back home tomorrow I will call directly the Royal House.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mazzini and Moggi speak to each other about FIGC President Franco Carraro on September 6 2004. They also talk about the federal elections and a meeting with the referees…
Mazzini: For this asshole (referring to Carraro), don’t forget that he thinks that, also if he passes like he normally wants, he will win. Instead you must stick it up his arse. Don’t forget!
Moggi: Ooh if I tell you let me talk to him, then tomorrow I have the appointment.
Mazzini: Ok.
(…
Mazzini: On Friday I’ll do the referees.
Moggi: On Friday I will come too.
Mazzini: I told Anto’ and he told me that he won’t come.
Moggi: Let it go, that’s a hybrid environment, the less that someone blends in, the better it is, and it’s not worth it to stay far away: I will make one take part or I will take part, or I will send Alessio.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conversations between Moggi and his son Alessandro (head of GEA World – an agency that controls many players and coaches in Italy), on August 19 2004…
A. Moggi: Morabito (agent) called me, in particular Vigorelli (agent), to find out if you wanted to make an exchange of loans for Liverani.
L. Moggi: No, no. They work for Lazio now?
A. Moggi: What do I know, that’s what he told me.
L. Moggi: Damn it, since that one hooked down there, but I want to talk with him, because they gave them Lopez and they want to give them Marquez, eh?
A. Moggi: Eh, I know.
L. Moggi: Therefore it’s certain that they managed to get in a little, because they cannot go in much there, unless Cinquini (former Sporting Director of Lazio) does not work anymore for Lazio.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They speak again on September 10 2004…
A. Moggi: …the other day, take it as an information, then I don’t know, I met up with Enrico Preziosi (former President of Genoa) as always.
Luciano Moggi: Uhm…
A. Moggi: He started telling me how football is changing, you must be careful of this and that, Carraro, Galliani, then he tells me not to trust Montezemolo. I ask him why? Because I overheard a conversation at Juve, they want to kick everyone out except for Giraudo.
L. Moggi: Yes, but this is bollocks!
A. Moggi: I’m telling you what I heard, since Preziosi is often in this kind of environment, he’s in it.
L. Moggi: He’s never there!
A. Moggi: Well, dad, I’m telling you because...
L. Moggi: It’s exactly the other way round.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On August 28 2004, they talk about striker Fabrizio Miccoli…
L. Moggi: I asked Claudio Lotito (Lazio President) for 10 million and he told me 5, no? You must tell him: look, I can convince my father to do it for 7.5 million. Tell him some stories at the beginning.
A. Moggi: Ok.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moggi then calls a friend of Miccoli…
Moggi: Tell him to be less stupid, otherwise I won’t let him be called up for the national team, so I pass a judgement on him, because I will send him to the national team.
(Marcello Lippi was the coach of the Italian national team at that time – the man who worked under Moggi at Juventus for many years.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moggi’s conversation with Aldo Biscardi (Presenter of a football show on Italian TV)…
Biscardi: Hello?
Moggi: Can I speak with Doctor Biscardi?
Biscardi: It’s me!
Moggi: I’m Luciano Moggi.
Biscardi: Uehh….Lucia!
Moggi: So yesterday I called here our friend from Trieste…Fabio Baldas (former referee designator and commentator on the TV program “Il Processo di Biscardi”. I gave him a good talking, but there was no need. He does not have any fault.
(…
Moggi: But if he doesn’t come I won’t get anyone else, why should we kill the league off?
Biscardi: No, you won’t kill ****ing anything, maybe you killed it off last season, you should give me 40 million, you bet with me and you lost.
Moggi: Aldo, but I…you’re like an insured clock, what can I say?
Biscardi: And where is it?
Moggi: And you know that when I tell you…
Biscardi: And I don’t know. You never send it…
Moggi: **** off, I gave you one, it cost 40 million!
Other intercepted conversations show how Moggi and Paolo Bergamo (referees’ designator) agreed on which referees to send for which games, and how Moggi asked for Pierluigi Collina (international referee) to be punished among other things.
Officials from Milan, Lazio, Fiorentina and the FIGC were also tapped.
WARNING: These transcripts contain very strong language, and some text may not be translated 100% acurately!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On February 9 2005, Moggi and Bergamo had this conversation...
Moggi: ...Now I tell you what I had studied.
Bergamo: ...Let’s see what we agree on with what I had studied!
Moggi: ...Let’s see a bit if…
Bergamo: ...Let’s see who studied best... Who do you put in the first grid of teams? Of games?
Moggi: ...wait...let me get the paper! Because I checked it out well today... So I put: Inter-Roma;
Bergamo: ...yes...
Moggi: ...Juventus-Udinese;
Bergamo: ...yes...
Moggi: Reggina-Milan;
Bergamo: ...yes...
Moggi: Fiorentina-Parma, which cannot be left out and Siena-Messina;
Bergamo: ...yes...;
Moggi: ...I put five, however we can also put four! It’s not like Siena-Messina is an important match! I think so, no?
Bergamo: Then there’s also Livorno-Sampdoria where in the first round there was a lot of problems! However, it’s ok! Go ahead, as anyway... it doesn’t change much!
Moggi: ...I know teams which ...I know teams Livorno and Sampdoria which in practice are a bit calmer!
Bergamo: Uhhh! Not really! Well! Ok, go ahead! Because anyway not much changes, we can also add another one if we wanted, however I have only a few referees for the first slot! Tell me!
Moggi: I put: Bertini...
Bergamo: ...uh...
Moggi: ...Paparesta who returns...
Bergamo: ...no, Paparesta does not return!
Moggi: He returns on Friday!
Bergamo: Are you sure?
Moggi: Sure!
Bergamo: But if Gigi told me that this UEFA commitment will keep him out till the 12th?
Moggi: ...ehm... What he told you is crap...and when’s the 12th??
Bergamo: ...Saturday!...
Moggi: No, no, he returns on Friday night!...Bertini, Paparesta, Trefoloni, Ragalbuto, I had placed Tombolini, but Tombolini then made a mess with Lazio, I don’t know how this is, that is he made a mess, he gave a penalty...
Bergamo: ...uh...
Moggi: ...and these were the referees I had placed in this grid!
Bergamo: ...and Rodomonti instead of Tombolini, right?
Moggi: ....or Rodomonti instead of Tombolini, is fine too!
Bergamo: ...and so we had done it the same way, you see!
Moggi: ...I, I think...I think that this can be a grid…a grid;
Bergamo: ...that is I don’t have Paparesta. I had 4. I had: Bertini, Ragalbuto, Rodomonti and Trefoloni! And sincerely I want to stop Tombolini for a match because he made a mistake, otherwise you never punish them?
Moggi: ...yes...yes...no, no, no...Eh...oh? Look, let me tell you... maybe I’m wrong, also I have some people to keep under, no? If you, for example, don’t punish Collina and Rosetti, the others are all authorized.
Bergamo: ....but in fact, I did not put Collina and Rosetti, eh?
Moggi: ...No, just to tell you, but the others are authorized to say: if they do it, we can do it too, they cannot break our balls!
Bergamo: ...I have written down: Bertini, Rodomonti, Trefoloni, then you tell me Paparesta, better! Paparesta arrives and is used as a referee! The important thing is that he arrives on Friday because Inter-Roma is moved forward to Saturday!
Moggi: No, no Friday night he will be there! No, no, there are no problems....
(…
Moggi: ...I think...I think that there is no problem... this grid has no problem! I think! I think so, but then in football you never, if there are problems, however.
Bergamo: ...no, but also I believe in this, eh... the only thing, it doesn’t even interest me if Bertini goes to do Reggina-Milan which is the sixth time for Milan and... from that moment he will precluded! Patience, oh! He will not ref Milan-Juventus but this is not what worries me! Because anyway he already took care of the first leg, therefore!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phone calls between Moggi and Giraudo on December 22 2004 show that the Bianconeri duo discussed on how to punish Zdenek Zemen – the Czech coach who accused Juve players of being doped in the early 1990’s.
Moggi: Zeman? We must...we must do something to him, I don’t know a system, pity… we must hit him with a piece of wood...
(…
Moggi: We need ‘to take all the hemorrhages’, causing him a damage, inventing something, removing a player from him, finding some…
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not just Moggi is involved in these interceptions, AC Milan official Leonardo Meani called linesman Contini, designated for the Milan-Brescia match of the 9th of April 2006 which ended 1-1. In this interception, Contini calls Meani for a dinner-meeting…
Meani: ..cool, if there wasn’t the uncle, however always eh?
Contini: *laughs*
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The second game is Milan-Chievo 1-0 from the 20th of April and the interception involves Bergamo and Pairetto…
Bergamo: a...a…and, one who has been already for two months which we should have put him and there was some pressure and therefore… we put Puglisi to direct Milan-Chievo?...ehm, yesterday there were mistakes and therefore they ask: why do you penalise us? ehm, that is with me they did not speak, eh? I’ll tell you the truth, they called Gennaro (Mazzei).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The third match is Siena-Milan 2-1 from the 17th of April 2005. In this case, according to the investigators, they believe that the Rossoneri were damaged in favour of Juve…
Mazzini to Giraudo: "however...however I must say that our friend was exceptional at Siena, eh?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contini talking about Baglioni, linesman designated for the Siena-Milan game…
Contini: he’s Pairetto’s friend, if you want to know he’s the one who books the tickets for him, that Pairetto goes to eat at his house, not at the restaurant, at his house…
Meani: "What the ****, what the ****, I really don’t want him, I don’t want him, I never asked for him nor wanted him, this is one… now he’s also asking me to be very careful, dh, not to make mistakes because Galliani is very angry, obviously. So tell him to be very careful from now on… till the end of the season… however Gennaro is very angry, tell him that from now on he must not make any ****ing mistakes because he’s very angry, therefore also on Wednesday try to send two intelligent ones.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are some extracts from the conversations between Bergamo and Pairetto, after the President of the FIGC (Franco Carraro) asked Bergamo to help Lazio for the Chievo-Lazio game which the Biancocelesti won 1-0 on February 20 2005.
Bergamo: ...Lotito was looking for me, he wanted to know, he spoke with Carraro, I think on Friday, on the request for attention for his case, because you know he’s one of the flag bearers pro Carraro, pro Galliani, but Carraro told you something and he did not tell you anything?... try to understand Gigi, he wants to know just if Carraro told you something, to keep into consideration Lazio’s position and his own, because he is doing a lot…
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A telephone conversation between Mazzini and Lazio President Claudio Lotito…
Lotito: Therefore he spoke with him?... This is a positive thing, so it means that he is loyal with me…
(…
Lotito: …but he did it specifically or generically? … in the sense for a conduction, even a future one, not just specific for a thing.
Mazzini: no. no...he confirmed it to me, not only...but it’s a pressing intervention.
Lotito: You must work on both of them and talk to them clearly, start, start, we must see and start to say, did you understand? To establish, to establish, understood?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The second match is Lazio’s 2-0 win against Parma on February 27 2005, which was refereed by Messina. In this case Carraro had a direct interest in this game and Mazzini called Lotito…
Mazzini: ...We must avoid relegation in every way, eh?...
Lotito: ...aoh, on Sunday I have Parma eh? Which is important.
Mazzini: they will arrest you...they will arrest you!
Lotito: ...Aho? And why should they?...
Mazzini: ehh! Ask those guys from Parma...ask the Parma guys!...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The third Lazio match is the one against Bologna (2-1). Apparently, the designation of Tagliavento as a referee was predetermined by Carraro, Bergamo, Pairetto, Mazzini and Lotito…
Lotito: ...the problem now is at Bologna…listen to me…look that Bologna is important, you know why or what he did to me Gazzoni…you know what he told me…on Sunday next to me? I will make a declaration…I told him ok…do the declaration.
Mazzini: You do the declaration…we take the points!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paolo Bergamo called the fourth official of the Roma-Juventus match so that he would keep his mobile phone turned on during the half time and the game, recommending him a “secure mobile”…
Bergamo to employee Fazi: Listen, I need a courtesy…can you call Francesca (wife of the referee Marco Gabriele, fourth official of the Roma-Juve match) Marco’s wife… and tell him that tonight he needs to leave the mobile phone on…so that if there was the need for something… between the first and second half… or also to take it on the pitch, it’s the same…since there…eventually only I call him, but if there was any need I would be able to contact him…tell him that it should be a secure mobile and then…however do it through Francesca, not directly with him.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following conversations, both between Moggi and Italy's most famous sports commentator Fabio Baldas, show how Moggi’s system worked. Baldas is Italy's Des Lynam, reviewing the weekend's games in his weekly programme. Moggi, with his canny understanding of the media, had worked out that the best way to conceal the bias that referees were repeatedly showing Juventus was by exploiting his contacts in the mass media. His logic was that though 50,000 might see the game live, millions had their opinions formed by men such as Baldas. According to investigators, Baldas and Moggi spoke before nearly every programme to discuss what was going to be said and shown, who was going to be given the Roman thumbs up and who got the thumbs down. So, on 18th October 2005, Baldas rang Moggi on his mobile…
Baldas: How are you? Well?
Moggi: Good.
Baldas: Listen Luciano, today we haven't got much ... there is ... [just] Rodomonti [the referee for a game between Cagliari-Milan over the weekend]. Is it OK if we make him look bad? If you agree, of course ...
Moggi: Oh naturally.
Baldas: And then? And then? There's always Siena-Fiorentina ...
Moggi: But was there a penalty?
Baldas: Er ... bloody hell, yes, there was a penalty! ... And there Rosetti [a referee]. You know the guy ... But if we show him, what are we going to do?
Moggi: No, no, leave him alone ... just drop the Siena game.
Baldas: OK ... if I need a favour will you do me a favour?
Moggi: No problem.
Baldas: You'll call me back soon?
Moggi: Yup, soon.
Baldas: Fine, bye.
----------
Begrijpen we nu het verschil?
De mensen da zich nx intresseren van het italiaans voetbal moete nu keiver naar beneden scrollen.
Het archief is een bevroren moment uit een vorige versie van dit forum, met andere regels en andere bazen. Deze posts weerspiegelen op geen enkele manier onze huidige ideeën, waarden of wereldbeelden en zijn op sommige plaatsen gecensureerd wegens ontoelaatbaar. Veel zijn in een andere tijdsgeest gemaakt, al dan niet ironisch - zoals in het ironische subforum Off-Topic - en zouden op dit moment niet meer gepost (mogen) worden. Toch bieden we dit archief nog graag aan als informatiedatabank en naslagwerk. Lees er hier meer over of start een gesprek met anderen.