Archief - Straffeloosheid Israël
Het archief is een bevroren moment uit een vorige versie van dit forum, met andere regels en andere bazen. Deze posts weerspiegelen op geen enkele manier onze huidige ideeën, waarden of wereldbeelden en zijn op sommige plaatsen gecensureerd wegens ontoelaatbaar. Veel zijn in een andere tijdsgeest gemaakt, al dan niet ironisch - zoals in het ironische subforum Off-Topic - en zouden op dit moment niet meer gepost (mogen) worden. Toch bieden we dit archief nog graag aan als informatiedatabank en naslagwerk. Lees er hier meer over of start een gesprek met anderen.
k995
Legacy Member
Bongobong zei:
Ok je hebt dus niks tegen een 2statenoplossing, echter hoe zie je daar zelf anar toe te evolueren? je moet immers daarvoor onderhandelen waardoor je de politiek nodig hebt.
Je mag dan nog vakbonden ondersteunen zonder de politiek kom je nergens.
Omdat dit simpelweg niet zo is. De reacties nu zijn grotendeels uit eigenbelang of zefbehoud.
Het zionisme van nu dat er nog is is ook niet meer dat van 100 jaar geleden. En met de wil tot een eigen staat is trouwens niks mis mee.
Ik heb de indruk dat je zelf zionisme als een soort van ultiem kwaad ziet , een kapstok om alles aan te hangen.
µEn terroristen en religieuze gekken tussen de palestijnen (of israelies voor dat)
Voor zover ik zie ben ik verre vand e enige die zo over die teksten denkt en maakt weinig uit. Jouw stelling was dat dit algemeen aangenomen was en feit, in realiteit is het een omstreden mening. het mag dan nog deels gebaseerd op historische feiten, de conclusies eruit zijn dat niet .
zwerver
Legacy Member
Weinig kans op. Jerusalem Post website is IMO een goeie graadmeter voor zo'n dingenPokem0ng zei:
De voorpagina op de website nu:
- Abbas wil vredesgesprekken hervatten
- Hamas: "Syrië is prioriteit" + ander artikel over Syrië
- binnenlandse politiek
Pas een eind naar onderen staan er twee stukken over.
Op de andere grote nieuwswebsite Ynetnews moet je al zoeken om het te vinden, zelfde bij Haaretz. Daar is een stuk erover wel het meest gelezen artikel vandaag: Rocket attack from Gaza is Islamic Jihad's way of settling score with Hamas - Diplomacy & Defense - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper
Pokem0ng
Legacy Member
persoonlijk lees ik veel liever Maariv dan haaretz/jpost
Israel News: Ynetnews
haaretz is veel te links vind ik + aangezien Avoda nu in de oppositie zit vind ik dat ze teveel overdrijven soms.
Maariv is vrij onafhankelijk imo
Israel News: Ynetnews
haaretz is veel te links vind ik + aangezien Avoda nu in de oppositie zit vind ik dat ze teveel overdrijven soms.
Maariv is vrij onafhankelijk imo
Ketelbuik
Legacy Member
Subject: reax to UN Committee on the Rights of the Child report
This is a report that is not based on any direct investigation on the ground, only on documents gathered from secondary sources. Israel has nothing to hide and when addressed by a serious, professional and credible organization, such as UNICEF for example, on the subject matter at hand, we are happy to fully cooperate and to implement the recommendations of the ensuing report: I refer you to the March report of UNICEF and to Israel's positive response to it. In this case, however, we are not talking about any kind of investigation: Israel submitted its own extensive reports and data to the committee, which then chose to ignore them wholesale, and to pretend they never existed. Israel was not even given a fair chance to respond to the final draft, as is customary in these case. This attitude clearly shows that the authors of this report did not act in good faith, and cared very little about truth and fairness. The resulting report obviously does not aim to promote any human rights values or any improvements, but only to grab headlines.
Among the reports many distorted and dishonest allegations, the one regarding human shields is salient in bad faith: Israel is urged (paragraph 72) to "issue clear and precise instructions that such acts will be prosecuted and severely punished". But the authors were fully informed (by an official Israeli document submitted by an Israeli delegation) that instructions have indeed been issued and that the use of children as human shields is totally forbidden. Yet the authors pretend there never was any such communication by Israel, and that all necessary measures were taken before the report was even drafted. Most important of all: the report would have readers believe that some cases were recorded which justify this recommendation, while in fact no such case has been registered and proven.
The authors have also been informed that there is full separation between minors and adults in all detentions facilities and prisons, and minors are provided with education, yet they choose, for no apparent reason, to claim the contrary (In paragraph 73g and 74e). Paragraph 74d falsely states that defendants are convicted based solely on their statement during interrogation – where in fact corroborating evidence is always required. Paragraph 37 falsely claims there are corporal punishment in detention, whereas this is totally unsubstantiated and inaccurate.
Contrary to claims in paragraphs 25c, 26c, 53-54 and 59 , Israel, at all times, allowed entry humanitarian goods into the Gaza Strip. Moreover, In June 2010, The Israel Government decided that all goods can enter the Gaza Strip, with no restrictions except items of military nature.
The list of false, flawed and gratuitous allegations goes on and on: this report is shaming the institution which commissioned it.
Het is ook makkelijk scoren zo voor de Palestijnen met al die ongenuanceerde westerlingen met een bord voor hun kop. Enige wat ze hoeven te doen is hun kinderen op de grenspolitie of soldaten af te sturen en kunnen vervolgens moord en brand gaan schreeuwen hoe zielig ze wel niet zijn. Terwijl er geen Israelier is die het in zijn hoofd haalt om zijn kinderen op de Palestijnen af te sturen in de wetenschap dat je simpelweg gelynched wordt.
This is a report that is not based on any direct investigation on the ground, only on documents gathered from secondary sources. Israel has nothing to hide and when addressed by a serious, professional and credible organization, such as UNICEF for example, on the subject matter at hand, we are happy to fully cooperate and to implement the recommendations of the ensuing report: I refer you to the March report of UNICEF and to Israel's positive response to it. In this case, however, we are not talking about any kind of investigation: Israel submitted its own extensive reports and data to the committee, which then chose to ignore them wholesale, and to pretend they never existed. Israel was not even given a fair chance to respond to the final draft, as is customary in these case. This attitude clearly shows that the authors of this report did not act in good faith, and cared very little about truth and fairness. The resulting report obviously does not aim to promote any human rights values or any improvements, but only to grab headlines.
Among the reports many distorted and dishonest allegations, the one regarding human shields is salient in bad faith: Israel is urged (paragraph 72) to "issue clear and precise instructions that such acts will be prosecuted and severely punished". But the authors were fully informed (by an official Israeli document submitted by an Israeli delegation) that instructions have indeed been issued and that the use of children as human shields is totally forbidden. Yet the authors pretend there never was any such communication by Israel, and that all necessary measures were taken before the report was even drafted. Most important of all: the report would have readers believe that some cases were recorded which justify this recommendation, while in fact no such case has been registered and proven.
The authors have also been informed that there is full separation between minors and adults in all detentions facilities and prisons, and minors are provided with education, yet they choose, for no apparent reason, to claim the contrary (In paragraph 73g and 74e). Paragraph 74d falsely states that defendants are convicted based solely on their statement during interrogation – where in fact corroborating evidence is always required. Paragraph 37 falsely claims there are corporal punishment in detention, whereas this is totally unsubstantiated and inaccurate.
Contrary to claims in paragraphs 25c, 26c, 53-54 and 59 , Israel, at all times, allowed entry humanitarian goods into the Gaza Strip. Moreover, In June 2010, The Israel Government decided that all goods can enter the Gaza Strip, with no restrictions except items of military nature.
The list of false, flawed and gratuitous allegations goes on and on: this report is shaming the institution which commissioned it.
Het is ook makkelijk scoren zo voor de Palestijnen met al die ongenuanceerde westerlingen met een bord voor hun kop. Enige wat ze hoeven te doen is hun kinderen op de grenspolitie of soldaten af te sturen en kunnen vervolgens moord en brand gaan schreeuwen hoe zielig ze wel niet zijn. Terwijl er geen Israelier is die het in zijn hoofd haalt om zijn kinderen op de Palestijnen af te sturen in de wetenschap dat je simpelweg gelynched wordt.
zwerver
Legacy Member
http://www.unicef.org/oPt/UNICEF_oP...ations_and_Recommendations_-_6_March_2013.pdf (PDF)Addertand zei:
UNICEF zei:For several years, national lawyers, human rights organizations, United Nations experts and treaty bodies have been publishing reports of illtreatment of children who come in contact with the Israeli military detention system.
It concludes that the ill-treatment of children who come in contact with the military detention system appears to be widespread, systematic and institutionalized throughout the process, from the moment of arrest until the child’s prosecution and eventual conviction and sentencing.
It is understood that in no other country are children systematically tried by juvenile military courts that, by definition, fall short of providing the necessary guarantees to ensure respect for their rights. All children prosecuted for offences they allegedly committed should be treated in accordance with international juvenile justice standards, which provide them with special protection. Most of these protections are enshrined in the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
...
The analysis of the cases monitored by UNICEF identified examples of practices that amount to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment according to the Convention on the Rights of the Child and the Convention against Torture.
What amounts to ill–treatment depends on the facts and circumstances of each case. However, the common experience of many children is being aggressively awakened in the middle of the night by many armed soldiers and being forcibly brought to an interrogation centre tied and blindfolded, sleep deprived and in a state of extreme fear. Few children are informed of their right to legal counsel.
...
No child has been accompanied by a lawyer or family member during the interrogation, despite article 37(d) of the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which requires that: “Every child deprived of his or her liberty shall have the right to prompt access to legal and other appropriate assistance.”
The children are rarely informed of their rights, particularly the right against selfincrimination, despite another requirement in the same article stating that every child deprived of liberty shall have “the right to challenge the legality of the deprivation of his or her liberty before a court or other competent, independent and impartial authority, and to a prompt decision on any such action.” There is no independent oversight of the interrogation process. ...
The interrogation mixes intimidation, threats and physical violence, with the clear purpose of forcing the child to confess. ...
Some children have been held in solitary confinement, for a period ranging from two days up to one month before the court hearing as well as after sentencing.
...
In the majority of cases, the principal evidence against the child is the child’s own confession, in most cases extracted under duress during the interrogation.
...
Two of the three prisons run by the Israel Prison Service, where the majority of Palestinian children serve their sentences, are located inside Israel44.The transfer of Palestinian children to prisons inside Israel contravenes article 76 of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War (hereinafter “Fourth Geneva Convention”. It provides that “protected persons accused of offences shall be detained in the occupied country, and if convicted they shall serve their sentences therein.”
In practical terms, this makes family visits difficult, and in some cases impossible, due to regulations that restrict Palestinians with West Bank ID cards from travelling inside Israel and to the length of time it takes to issue a permit. This contravenes article 37(c) of the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which states that a child “shall have the right to maintain contact with his or her family through correspondence and visits, save in exceptional circumstances”.
De professionele, betrouwbare organisatie heeft ook al aangetoond dat het in feite om foltering van kinderen gaat, al zijn ze zo goed geweest het altijd 'ill-treatment' te noemen. Er kan echter geen twijfel over bestaan dat dat een kwestie van woorden is, gezien de volgende paragraaf uit de inleiding:
UNICEF zei:
zengi
Legacy Member
Ketelbuik
Legacy Member
PA minister: New peace talks will help us conquer Israel later - Israel Today | Israel News
Met zo'n idioten moet Israël vrede gaan sluiten.
Met zo'n idioten moet Israël vrede gaan sluiten.
zwerver
Legacy Member
Filmpje: PA agreements modeled after Muhammad's Hudaybiyyah Peace Treaty - YouTubeAddertand zei:
Ze vergeten natuurlijk ook te vermelden dat het een foutief is om te zeggen dat Mohammed het verdrag sloot om het later bewust te verbreken om Mekka te veroveren. Het blijft natuurlijk een geladen opmerking, en ze draagt inderdaad een verwijzing naar een oorlog.
Wat de man verder zegt, kan je bezwaarlijk idioot noemen. ("We willen vrede, maar niet zomaar")
Daarenboven kan je de verwijzing ook anders interpreteren: "het is een onpopulaire beslissing, maar het is de juiste, en God beloont degenen die de juiste beslissing nemen; vertrouw dus in God, en laat ons vrede sluiten".
Op diezelfde manier verwees Arafat naar de Oslo-akkoorden in die filmpjes eronder.
Israël houdt trouwens geen onderhandelingen met als direct doel vrede te sluiten, het voornaamste doel is onderhandelen. Niet onderhandelen zou voor Israël in de huidige politieke situatie erg schadelijk kunnen zijn...
Meer: In raging Middle East, Israel wins time with Palestinian peace talks | Reuters
zengi
Legacy Member
Self-exile claim ‘is a fabrication’
Every year on May 15 hundreds of thousands of Palestinians around the world commemorate the Nakba (Catastrophe) in remembrance of the displacement that preceded and followed the Israeli Declaration of Independence in 1948.
According to the Jewish National Fund’s Amber Cummins, 711000 Arabs left their homes voluntarily “in the face of the war of aggression against Israel”.
“We know that at the time that Israeli independence was declared, the surrounding Arab countries called on Arabs who lived in Israel to move out, to flee, promising them a swift victory over Israel and that they would wipe Israel off the face of the map whereupon they would be able to return to their homes with more land than they had before.
“With that … Arabs left voluntarily. There was no expulsion/nakba, it was an evacuation, a voluntary evacuation, they fled. Everybody was leaving, so in all probability, the people who didn’t want to leave also left when they saw those people leaving,” she said. “Israel didn’t have the military force available to expel these people. Most of them were Holocaust survivors being pushed from pillar to post around Europe. The whole country had three or five tanks. It is made out that this vicious Israeli army carried out this expulsion. How could they have?”
But Ran Greenstein, a professor of sociology at Wits University who specialises in the study of Israeli/Palestinian and South African history and politics said that the facts of the war were well documented by Israeli historians, Palestinians scholars, as well as the verbal accounts of survivors on both sides. “The Institute of Palestine Studies has created a site that includes dozens of memoirs, analyses and records about the Nakba,” he pointed out.
Israeli historian Ilan Pappé, who directs the European Centre for Palestine Studies at the University of Exeter in the United Kingdom, said: “It’s a fabrication that there was a call from the Arabs to leave. The professional Israeli historiography found out that there was no such call. Recently, in Haaretz, it was revealed how this lie was marketed after the war as part of a propaganda effort to cover the ethnic cleansing.
“Arab armies entered Palestine on May 15 1948, when 300 000 Palestinians had already become refugees. By that time, the whole Palestinian population of Haifa and Jaffa, nearly 110000 people altogether, had been expelled. The Arab governments did not want to send in their armies, but after the massacre of Deir Yassin on April 9 1948, there was public pressure to stop the ethnic cleansing and hence, the entrance of the armies to Palestine.”
- See more at: South African diplomat rejects JNF honour | BDSmovement.net
Every year on May 15 hundreds of thousands of Palestinians around the world commemorate the Nakba (Catastrophe) in remembrance of the displacement that preceded and followed the Israeli Declaration of Independence in 1948.
According to the Jewish National Fund’s Amber Cummins, 711000 Arabs left their homes voluntarily “in the face of the war of aggression against Israel”.
“We know that at the time that Israeli independence was declared, the surrounding Arab countries called on Arabs who lived in Israel to move out, to flee, promising them a swift victory over Israel and that they would wipe Israel off the face of the map whereupon they would be able to return to their homes with more land than they had before.
“With that … Arabs left voluntarily. There was no expulsion/nakba, it was an evacuation, a voluntary evacuation, they fled. Everybody was leaving, so in all probability, the people who didn’t want to leave also left when they saw those people leaving,” she said. “Israel didn’t have the military force available to expel these people. Most of them were Holocaust survivors being pushed from pillar to post around Europe. The whole country had three or five tanks. It is made out that this vicious Israeli army carried out this expulsion. How could they have?”
But Ran Greenstein, a professor of sociology at Wits University who specialises in the study of Israeli/Palestinian and South African history and politics said that the facts of the war were well documented by Israeli historians, Palestinians scholars, as well as the verbal accounts of survivors on both sides. “The Institute of Palestine Studies has created a site that includes dozens of memoirs, analyses and records about the Nakba,” he pointed out.
Israeli historian Ilan Pappé, who directs the European Centre for Palestine Studies at the University of Exeter in the United Kingdom, said: “It’s a fabrication that there was a call from the Arabs to leave. The professional Israeli historiography found out that there was no such call. Recently, in Haaretz, it was revealed how this lie was marketed after the war as part of a propaganda effort to cover the ethnic cleansing.
“Arab armies entered Palestine on May 15 1948, when 300 000 Palestinians had already become refugees. By that time, the whole Palestinian population of Haifa and Jaffa, nearly 110000 people altogether, had been expelled. The Arab governments did not want to send in their armies, but after the massacre of Deir Yassin on April 9 1948, there was public pressure to stop the ethnic cleansing and hence, the entrance of the armies to Palestine.”
- See more at: South African diplomat rejects JNF honour | BDSmovement.net
Tr1ploid
Legacy Member
Gemeenteraad Jeruzalem keurt bouw 942 woningen in Palestijns gebied goed - Buitenland - Nieuws - Knack.be
Net voor de onderhandelingen. Man man, toch.
Net voor de onderhandelingen. Man man, toch.
Het archief is een bevroren moment uit een vorige versie van dit forum, met andere regels en andere bazen. Deze posts weerspiegelen op geen enkele manier onze huidige ideeën, waarden of wereldbeelden en zijn op sommige plaatsen gecensureerd wegens ontoelaatbaar. Veel zijn in een andere tijdsgeest gemaakt, al dan niet ironisch - zoals in het ironische subforum Off-Topic - en zouden op dit moment niet meer gepost (mogen) worden. Toch bieden we dit archief nog graag aan als informatiedatabank en naslagwerk. Lees er hier meer over of start een gesprek met anderen.