Archief - TF2 of desnoods TFC: Source

Exoronic zei:

Als er een echte tfc source zou komen zouden er niet veel mensen bijkomen denk ik.
reden is dat je voor tfc zoveel moet leren voordat je meekan met andere spelers + wij lopen al zover voor op "newbies" dat volgens mij de nieuwe tfc-ers het zeer snel gaan opgeven.

Andere reden is dat belange nog niet iedereen een pc en graka heeft die hl2 , cs source , tfc source(?) zal kunnen trekken , zeker tfc-source niet want tfc-source is enorm veeleisend door explosies enzo.

Laatste reden is dat TFC belange niet populair is en daarom het ook niet snel zal ontdenkt worden door andere gamers. cs , dod... is zooooooooooooooooooveel bekender dan tfc en daarom die games een enorme primaire keuze krijgen tegenover tfc.

En allerlaatste punt is de/deze community , denken jullie nu echt dat toekomstige gamers zich aangetrokken voelen tot een paar zeikers en zakken ? mensen die foto's posten over iemand anders , voor het minste een flame starten op iemand z'n post , voor het minste iemand een noob noemen als ze iets kome vragen?denk het niet he jongens. en dan hebbe we het nog niet over onze speelstijl gehad , iedereen haat spam maar iedereen doet het,GEEN enkele speler gaat zich aangetrokken voelen tot een spel waar ge doodgespammed word als je je ressup uitkomt.

Voor mij is tfc zo dood als iets als "wij' tfc-ers niets aan ons gedrag gaan veranderen.

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Exoronic zei:

Als er een echte tfc source zou komen zouden er niet veel mensen bijkomen denk ik.
reden is dat je voor tfc zoveel moet leren voordat je meekan met andere spelers + wij lopen al zover voor op "newbies" dat volgens mij de nieuwe tfc-ers het zeer snel gaan opgeven.

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Exoronic zei:

k , maar als ze de mentaliteit hebben om gewoon te spelen en geen league te joinen dan heb je er ook niks aan he. dan gaan ze gewoon spelen voor fun en gaat de commu gewoon dood , klinkt miss crue ma das imo de waarheid. geen league = no tfc
dan zitte we weer bij 0 .

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^^VooDoo^^ zei:

Dan heb je weer het voordeel zou er een TF2 komen in de aard van Enemy territory en frontline force met een tikkeltje niet realistisch dat je meer keuzes hebt om te spelen, en niet geforceerd zijt om 1 bepaalde weg te volgen zoals nu in TFC.

Nuja we zien wel, het is al bijna volgende week

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At the moment and as it stands.

It's a little too fast.

I wouldn't want to kill the fast based gameplay. The fast based gameplay is what keeps TFC interesting.

AFAIK and have observed the main classes played during TFC at present are SOLDIER and MEDIC.

There are limits in league play for heavy weapons guy is 1 - Ok fair enough.

SNIPER isn't even a used class anymore.

So we might as well eliminate MR SNIPER and just have SOLDIER and MEDIC.

The way I have observed it.

Is that a certain group of people (who mainly play Soldier) have whinged enough to have the Sniper cut back during clan matches.

The play off with this is that the Soldier doesn't have any real opposition, the only exception is the heavy weapon's guy and maybe the Engineer. Thusly the Soldier in all his wisdom has nothing to fear and kills everything with the RPG.

Now with Bunny Hopping or rather people ducking and jumping really fast in public games and mind are you, clan matches playing Soldier and not to forget to mention our good friend MR MEDIC who is incidently a healing class and not a flag courier are then the most often played classes.


Scout then as a class gets under utilised in favour of the medic.
The scales get tipped and the other classes therefore become under utilised and not used as much in clan matches and in public play.

Hence we could then call it Soldier and Medic Fortress Classic and thusly the concept of TEAM goes right out the window.

I've seen PUG play. Any concept of TEAMPLAY and more importantly CLASS UTILISATION still goes right out the window.

So now the question is:

DO YOU want a mod that is full of whinging soldiers that do nothing but complain about SPAMMING from all the other classes that were in the game originally.

or

DO YOU want a game where every class is used and a fast paced equal balanced mod comes into play. That still involves fast paced play and teamplay.

I would also like you to take a look at how NATURAL SELECTION is being worked by Flayra.

Now look at NATURAL SELECTION
That has teamplay? Yes
Is it fast paced? Yes
Does it work? Yes
Is it being refined? Yes
Is it being improved? Yes
Is gameplay balance being achieved? Yes
Is the gameplay like CS? NO.
Are the unbalancing problems being refined? Absolutely.

Now look at TFC:

Does it have teamplay? Maybe
Is it fast paced? Yes
Does it work? Sort of
Is it being refined? Maybe
Is it being improved? Depends.
Are the unbalancing problems being refined? Erm... Maybe not in the last 2 years... No.

Hell I wouldn't want to destroy the Team Fortress ideal. It is what keeps me coming back to the mod/s.

But when I see the class utilisation that was there in 2001 & early 2002.

Then I look at it now. I wonder why the servers are filled with bots and why people need to bring out server side modifications just to keep it from falling in the bear trap and it makes me sad.

And if TF2 is anything to go by (from what was proposed back in 2000) the fast paced gameplay will be there but it might be a HELL bit different.

What Im proposing is that we keep the fast paced gameplay. But we make the learning curve steeper, more interesting and introduce more TEAMPLAY aspects.

Hell I even hate Counter Strike with a passion. Although modifications like Urban Terror, Strike Force and Frag Ops do great justice in using different items but the same style of gameplay. I still hate CS.

To put my ideal forward:

So OK you want to play as an individual.
You could sure. But you would get chewed up faster by the opposition because they are working together.

Sure you could try and get the flag yourself but because a few other people on the other team have their stuff worked out. You will get servely screwed. Hence no more rambo medic flag capturer.

And hell yes if you want to capture the flag as scout you sure can and WHAT'S MORE THE SCOUT WILL BE A *THE* FLAG COURIER. So if you want the flag you can go scout. Sure all the other classes will be able to capture the flag. But it will be much HARDER for them to bring that flag out.

Now the other problem people have with TFC is that they rank classes as OFFENCE and DEFENSIVE.

Now don't get me wrong. Offensive and Defensive are all well and good. But how many engineers do you see go offensive. How many pyros do you see go offensive.

During clan matches the main class you see as offensive is Soldier or Heavy.

What if ALL CLASSES could go offensive?.
What if ALL CLASSES could go defensive?.

In TFC a simple tweak of the max magazine capacites of the Soldier and he doesn't become an OFFENSIVE class anymore. He then relies on the Engineer to get ammo.

Simple things thusly turn a once only OFFENSIVE class into a class that then relies on another class. So no more John Rambo rocket launcher.

I've seen for example the teleporter get NOT used in clan matches. Once again a certain group of clan people say "BUT NO WE HATE TELEPORTER IT MEANS WE HAVE TO CHECK THE BASE!" and once again the tried and true unbalancing the screw through TFC happens.

I was thinking, well why would a certain TFC designer put in a teleporter? Good question you ask. Well thats simply so:

1. You can get your classes into position faster.
2. To get ammunition and health for the other classes that don't have so much health.

Course the MIRV's had to be taken down to 2 in the earlier patches of TFC that was fair enough.

But then all of a sudden the concussion grenades for both medic and scout get reduced to 3 and not listed in the changelog or the patch details.

It's just little things like that. That get noticed.

Now of course, like any so called 'community' there are the people that like a 'Classic'.

So to keep them happy.

We introduce the original. You have two modes that can be set server side. One is classic the other is the new one.

Hell maybe this is what will happen with TF2. We will see the classic and the more pure TEAMPLAY ideal.

Yes Im still working on the more TEAMPLAY fast paced ideal design doc.

I also looked at Q3 Fortress vs. TFC.
I noticed that the control system was all there and ready to be binded.

I know as much fun as it is to make your own scripts. Sure you can do that.
In fact I encourage you to make your own scripts.

But what I really hate to see is that a mod comes with no standards. So EVERYONE will get the option to bind the keys that they want.

This is another reason why I don't appreciate bunny hopping. Because one person has it and the other people don't.

Sure its a skill you say. Then you look at the clan matches where ONE CLAN has the advantage of bunny hopping and the other clan doesn't. Maybe the clan only started playing a one year ago. How about in public play? Nope equilibrium is definately out of the rule book here. Dare we even mention the fast paced duck jumping.

STEEPER LEARNING CURVE? Absolutely.
I would definately like to propose this more.

I would rather a game that is easier to pickup and harder to learn.

If you look at the MMORPG's they have solved that problem. Not that I would want to make a TF with traits for classes but it would make an interesting alternate gameplay mode.

What the MMORPG's had was pure TEAMWORK. A side from the harvesting of areas where rare items regen. Truely what they have always had was TEAMWORK.

Ok so sure you could make more grenade types that make you fly through the area. That's all well and good. But what if you could use other classes to do that?

Scout being primarily a MOVEMENT based class. He could have some method of moving other classes around.

Once again I just have to work it out in the design documents.

I also noticed that people like bhopping because they move faster. Then you have to question the scouts job.

After all the Half Life 2 maps can be 64 by 64 and the normal Half Life maps can be 16 by 16? Gives a whole new definition to the term movement.

Last edited by Kimbo on 11-27-2004 at 04:05 PM

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Mantis zei:

TFC was minstens even leuk op newbie niveau als op skilled niveau.

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Hannibal zei:

was jij ooit skilled dan ?

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